Information Agency Pirveli
Interview with Prime Minister of the ChRI Akhmed Zakaev.
L. Chitanava: Catholic – Patriarch of Whole Georgia Ilia II announced too interesting initiative while Sunday liturgy in regards to peace draft in Caucasus region concerning establishment of common soul space. After announcement of abovementioned idea, meeting had been held between U.S. State Secretary Mathew Bryza and Catholic Patriarch of Georgia Ilia II. Establishment of common soul space in itself represents to be not innovation, indeed its declaring by Catholic Patriarch bears more importance. Representatives of Diasporas from different European countries sent a letter to the Patriarch on welcoming the initiative. What ` s your view on the initiative?
A. Zakaev: I believe we need not to create anything, because tens of people living in Caucasus have already established common soul space, despite of religious and national differences. Exactly soul closeness united these people and we should just regenerate the unity, being fall into decay following becoming colonies of Russia.. All existing problems in Caucasus are consequence of Russia`s imperial policy “Break Down and Rule Over”. Idea of peace Caucasus certainly realizable, in the case of refuse colony policy by Russia, namely, if international society will make Russia decolonization. Though, unfortunately, I know current European relies well, indeed I guess that Europe is not ready for negotiating with Russia concerning the issue. Therefore I can not share your optimism in regards to discussed initiative while meeting of Mathew Bryza and Ilia II. We would keep in mind that only we are able to improve our condition and we are mostly interested in the issue. I mean resolve of all obligatory problems, being provocation by Russia, including Highland Karabachos, South Ossetia, Chechnya, Dagestan, Ingushetia and problems of other North Caucasus. The problems can be resolved separately, thereof structure and gear with purpose of the idea ` s realization should be prepared.
L. Chitanava: Following of all these, how real is development of Caucasus?
A. Zakaev: We do have the chance and active negotiations are under the way. If you remain Jokhar Dudaev and Zviad Gamsakhurdia successively and exactly worked on the direction, indeed Georgia is sufficiency of sequence for handle the issue. I believe that Georgia should become center, the capital and leader of united Caucasus. Indeed, unfortunately Georgia is constantly busy with own problems and do not seriously apprehends the leadership of Caucasus.
L. Chitanava: Frequently the information spread on negotiations between the President of Chechnya Ramaz Kadirov and you and you agreed on returning to Chechnya, How real is that? Do you provide telephone conversations?
A. Zakaev: Republic of Chechnya Ichkerya Republic is ready for trying its best for interruption of the national catastrophe –Chechenization of Russian- Chechnya conflict.
L. Chitanava: How real is your returning to Chechnya?
A. Zakaev: Position of the republic of Chechnya had not been changed for yet. Today ` s current condition faces no completed controversy. Task of generally republic of Ichkeria and mine is find political outlets. I will be able to return just after political resolve of Russian- Chechnya conflict, which is stipulated not by Ramaz Kadirov but as well by dependence of Chechen people to Russian and Russian-Chechnya conflict. Personally I have no sort of problem towards Russia, but Russia has problem towards entire Chechnya people. The issue of my returning will be just considered after all these problems resolve.
L. Chitanava: Kremlin officials report about completing of counter- terrorism operation in up- coming future, because liquidation of all “boyevicks” . What information to you posses on current condition in Chechnya?
A. Zakaev: Yes, I m as well informed that the President of Russia prepares order on counter- terrorist operation ` s complete in Chechnya. In the case of the mention decision, the civilians will hope not to be blasted in own houses while being asleep, as it took place on fall on 1999, they will no more will be poisoned with gas as in 2002 at Dobrukov theater while counter- terrorist operation, kids won ` t be shoot from tanks as in 2004 at Beslan school….Under the mentioned context, I do absolutely agree with idea of completing counter- terrorist operation. Meanwhile Russian President and the other leaders should keep in mind that war might be broke out with unilateral order or decree, indeed can not be the same way completed. In regards to the issue, the authority of Ichkeria declares about unchanged position: Russian- Chechnya conflict can not violence way resolved, with the purpose of solid peace achievement in Chechnya and North Caucasus finding of political resolves are necessary on the bases of Moscow May 12, 1997 agreement of the president of Chechnya Aslan Maskhadov and the President of Russia Boris Eltsin.
I would like to appreciate my opportunity and express my condolence to the relatives of died during counter- terrorist operation. I highlight that no war considered to be finished until military guilty in killing of thousand children and civilians won ` t be punished according to international law norms and principles.
L. Chitanava: According to your dates, how serious are acting “under flour” forces in Chechnya, for instance group of Doku Umarov?
A. Zakaev: Umarov is leader of “under flour” forces, coming out with ideal of “Imarat Caucasus” foundation. I expressed my position concerning the project already one year recently. I can not name exact number of soldiers in Chechnya, indeed I really know that number of “under four” forces increased but not reduced following counter –terrorist operations in Chechnya.
L. Chitanava: Other North Caucasus Republics suffer hard condition as well –namely in Ingushetia and Dagestan. According to your information who dangerous is the escalation for Kremlin?
A. Zakaev: When Russia started violence way political problems resolve made tension condition in whole region. The republics have no right to elect the government and live by protecting own national interests. The authority, known in the world as –Russia represents to be classical pattern of colonizer. After independence from Russian yoke of the Ukraine, Armenia, Georgia and Baltic States, colonial dependence remains towards the North Caucasus. The people for present require own legal rights. Bolshevik regime of Russia does not give right people self- determination, so they have no chance except arm for protecting own rights. Created condition will obligatory come out form control until Russia won `t return the people its rights and dignity. They should have choice of religious and language.
L. Chitanava: How do you estimate August, 2008 war of Russia against Georgia and one –sided recognize of breakaway Abkhazia and South Ossetia?
A. Zakaev: Recognize of Abkhazia and South Ossetia represents to be annex of Georgian territories. Indeed, Abkhazia will have to get independence from Russia, as well South Ossetia never hided will to join Russia. They had never had any draft of independence. Therefore Abkhazia and South Ossetia should be separated in regards to the task. Charged by Edward Shevardnadze in 1996 I held meeting with Vldadislav Ardzinba. In the case of recent government ` s pliable steps the issue was bale to be resolved. Russia as well could be excepted from the process, hindering close of Abkhazia and South Ossetia positions. We always recognized and carry on to recognize sovereignty of Georgia. In 1993, ex –President of Georgia Zviad Gamsakhurdia recognized Chechnya ` s independence, providing diplomacy relationship with Ichkeria. Indeed, Georgian government faced not to be succession in activities and decisions. It do not recognizes territorial integrity and sovereignty of our republic. Though we recognize territorial integrity and sovereignty of Georgia.
L. Chitanava: Russia day by day sticks positions in regards to Caucasus. How attitude should be provided in regards to Kremlin for making Russia to respect territorial integrity and sovereignty of any country?
A. Zakaev: Just as sovereignty government: respect international law, fulfill all undertaken international engagements as signer up to European Council member and Venice Convince. I believe that Russia should not be given a change to use any country for realization of its goals. Georgia should not believe to Russia ` s words transmitting Chechens to Russia, who evaporated in Georgia/ The issue exactly related to Georgia ` s sovereignty. Venice Convention 7th protocol includes human rights protections. Georgia, as member of Euro Council, considers to be subscriber of the protocol. Georgia and it ` s authority faces violation of the Convention and transmitted approximately 30 Chechens to Russia on the bases of negotiation with Russia. That as well had been internal encroachment of Georgia ` s sovereignty and independence. Georgian authority had false dependence toward Russian- Chechnya conflicts. During Russian –Chechnya first war, ex President of Georgia Edward Shevardnadze almost supported Russia in military way protecting territorial integrity as by Russia as well as by Georgia. Indeed Russia had not just in mind to permit Georgia mentioned—exactly that was huge mistake of Georgia. Western partners of Georgia, involved in Georgian –Abkhazia and Georgian –Ossetia conflict agreed according to Russia ` s advice not to discuss mentioned under the frames of Russian- Chechnya conflicts. I believe that Georgia and its western partners check resistance of Russia against Chechnya. They foreseen permit Georgia its territorial integrity restore by Russia following own territorial integrity restore. That was un -forgivable mistake! And armed aggression against Georgia had been following abovementioned mistakes. Putin was absolutely sure in non- change position of Georgia and western partners towards Chechnya problem, despite of its actions in Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Therefore Putin recognized the republics. Putin turned out true—nothing real faced as a response. Today ` s Georgian government did not return to discussion of Chechnya problem, despite of having lost territories for recent tens of years. While such sort of condition the authority has not wish to declare about sovereignty of Chechnya, indeed double standards will never supply sovereignty and independence of any state. First of all independence of any state not just privilege, but obligation. For Georgia as for international law subject and one of leading state in Caucasus could and can do a lot for purpose of Russian- Chechnya conflict resolve, indeed, unfortunately Georgia does nothing and neither plans anything. Besides nothing to be lost, all is opened and “black” games are no more necessary: Russians opened cards, demonstrated real face and obviously expressed towards Georgia, Georgian government and sovereignty.
L. Chitanava: After Sokhumi fall down and Georgia completely lost control over Abkhazia, Chechen soldiers danced “Lesginka” on the background of burnt down Sokhumi. The same took place while Sokhumi fall down. Why Chechen so actively struggle against Georgia, what ` s your view concerning the issue?
A. Zakaev: Sure, Several Chechen volunteers struggled in Abkhazia, but… it should be stressed that no Chechen by Russian army and aviation struggled against Georgia. People, who struggled on Russia ` s side during August,2008 war. Georgia can not reproof Chechnya, because the fact when people speck Chechen does not mean to Chechen. They struggled for propaganda, fulfilling mission…If you remember Iamadaev had been just brought to South Ossetia, put by the cell and made to tell that he and his team struggled there. Later he acknowledge that and found conflict with Russia. One should understand that Russia followed principle “Break down and Rule Over”. We should recognize that responsible for Caucasus and its population are only we, but no Russia or any other country. We are hosts and future depends on present activities.
L. Chitanava: You have mentioned about Iamadaev… What can you say about Iamadaev brothers? Who they were for Chechen people?
A. Zakaev: My information goes no beyond everybody ` s knowledge. Ordinarily people taking side of occupants –the same sort of people were and are a lot in Georgia as well.. The category accustomed to serve strong. Georgians and Chechens serving occupants for today –run against own people ` s interests, having no future. I am not provided with exact information about occurred in Dubai (according to Russian media that Sulim Iamadaev had been killed) and telling you truth, I am not interested. I always knew that exactly Russia would bring to the end life of such sort of people. We have the exampled during 30th, 34th, 37 ---44ths. The same takes place today.
L. Chitanava: Who do you see Caucasus` future?
A. Zakaev: Prognoses is too early. Becoming of Georgia as really independent country will provide background for future of Caucasus. Caucasus surrendered to Russia after Georgia united to Russia. I guess August war made a final sport and future of Georgia irritable from the moment. I am sure that Georgia will create into independent and sovereignty state.
L. Chitanava: Indeed, currently Georgia suffers too hard periods, internal political condition as well faces to be tension: 20 % of occupied territories were added to already broke away territories…Russia carries on all sort of provocations, but opposition starts demonstrations demanding authority ` s resignation.
A. Zakaev: While talking about internal political condition, I ` d like highlight that struggle for ideals and integrity is necessary, but not for power. Opposition ` s majority –is the government in past. I do not know what changed or will change in their minds. If they struggle for own ideals – that ` s understandable, but if they struggle for leadership, provoking people struggling for non- stability, revolutions and exigency accesses is not assumable. I guess today ` s opposition has a real chance to agree with Saakashvili and debate several issues with him, calling upon follow ideals, in the opposite Georgia might be once against turn out in international community ` s eyes as one of banana ` s republic. All these took place not only in Georgia , but in Caucasus. The world estimated Georgia today as one of representative of Caucasus people/ I would call upon while opposition specter, to resolve all issues dialogue way by not demonstrations, when Georgia most of all needs unity, national unity for integrity and future protection.
Georgia must become independent country. If exact forces will start lead somebody ` s interest in the country, Georgia will suffer huge impact. Russia might use for own purposes internal tension of Georgia. Russia has an only goal –change the authority, and the opposition serves to exactly the same. Therefore I stress that it ` s not necessary to struggle for chair. If Saakashvili retreats, opposition will be engaged to agree on dialogue for not assist Russian in approach of goal, because Russia is number first enemy for Georgia and Georgia people!
Levan Chitanava
Information Agency Pirveli
(Translated by Agency Pirvely)
http://www.chechenpress.co.uk/content/2009/04/16/main02.shtml
