From: MSN NicknameEagle_wng (Original Message) Sent: 9/16/2006 1:56 AM
22 May 2006
Tatyana Lokshina: «There are two people who horrify people in Chechnya - Shamil Basayev and Ramzan Kadyrov»
Татьяна Локшина: Russian rights champion Tatyana Lokshina has criticized Chechen Prime Minister Ramzan Kadyrov for constant human rights violations and for creating an atmosphere of fear in the republic.
In her interview with the Caucasus Times, she pointed out that Kadyrov's militants are not subordinate to anyone and no-one dares to criticize their "criminal activities". At the same time, she said that Kadyrov is gaining popularity among the republic's population because of his role in the reconstruction of Chechnya.
Tatyana Lokshina is a rights champion and head of the Demos centre.
Сaucasus Тimes: - Last week you returned from a trip to Chechnya. You often visit the republic and can see how the situation is changing. What tendencies are the most noticeable now?
Tatyana Lokshina: There are tendencies that were rather obvious before as well. But even now we can speak about a well-established system. Chechnya has returned to the initial point of countdown if the situation of complete lawlessness can be regarded as such. Today we can see an absolutely legitimate formation where laws do not work and which is under the control to the federal centre to some extent. And when you look at what is going on there, the only feeling you have is: "How could one shed the blood of so many innocent people just to return to this barbarian savagery?"
Quite a large number of foreigners, including representatives of foreign countries, are now visiting Groznyy because it has become much easier to travel. They can see the city centre, Prospekt Pobedy [Avenue] that has been put in order and restored or newly-built buildings. There is no point in denying that reconstruction is under way. Residents of Chechnya themselves are already talking about this, although earlier they always said that this reconstruction work was just for show. They say: "Look, a new house has been built here and something else has been built over there." It is interesting.
Everyone understands that reconstruction is being funded by those who work and donate part of their wages to a certain cash fund. The system of so-called fees is arranged very reasonably. Businessmen pay more than anybody else, and they are followed by public sector employees such as policemen while teachers and doctors are paying less. Everyone knows and justifies that. You can hear people saying "yes, it is illegal, but my child can now walk around in the streets. I have been unemployed in the last 10 years while this policeman is getting R15,000. Let him pay R3,000 so that my child has a place to play."
Ramzan Kadyrov is gaining popularity
Ridiculous things happen sometimes. One former militant, who has not been fighting in recent years, told me: "You know how much I hated [Chechen Prime Minister Ramzan] Kadyrov. But what president (everyone calls Kadyrov president without waiting until autumn) has done so much for us? Now it is a pleasure to walk around in the streets. I respect him for this." He is not the only one. Many people now start to respect Ramzan Kadyrov and this is a colossal contrast with what was going on one year ago when you could not even hear a kind word about him. He is very popular with young people because he is really "tough".
A "tough" boss, a real master and a real Chechen who issues orders and these orders are followed with visible and intelligible results. He visits a ruined building and says: "There are ruins here today, but we will build a house here tomorrow." Even if not tomorrow but a couple of weeks later, work starts there and people see it and think: "Yes, he is a real master." It is extremely important to create the image of a successful leader against the background of anarchy into which Chechnya plunged many years ago. And nobody cares whether this government is righteous or not. We have had worse.
To all appearances, very experienced and efficient spin doctors are employed in Kadyrov's team and they give him clear instructions what to say and when and how. And this often works.
This time I encountered a frightening picture. The Chechen public (if this word can be used) and the authorities came to a certain consensus. That is the anti-federal invective common for both. What are public figures allowed to say publicly? They can be outraged by the actions of the federals - committed now or in the past. They can call a rally when there is another court hearing into the Ulman case to demand a fair verdict for the murderers. And people are happy to turn out because they are not afraid. They can make a big fuss when the federal centre, in their view and from the population's point of view, did not allocate enough money or did not take into account all the requirements of the republican budget. All these things are being encouraged.
In fact, the authorities have already received serious public support. Officials cannot afford to make critical remarks on the federal centre first, but they can always quote the opinion of allegedly independent people.
On the other hand, any criticism of Kadyrov is totally prohibited. No-one dares to say a word about the criminal deeds of his armed groups. It is extremely dangerous and people are keeping quiet. Everyone understands very well that nothing can be done to his militants as they do not obey anyone but Kadyrov. One Chechen described the situation very expressively. He said that if Kadyrov's men detain someone, there are only two people in Russia who can influence the situation - Kadyrov himself and [Russian President] Vladimir Putin. This means that if the Russian president asks Kadyrov to release a detainee, Kadyrov will listen to his request.
Return to Chechen values
A new feature in the deeds of Kadyrov's team is the struggle for traditional values. The slogan of the day is "We are Chechens and we will organize our life as we want". The sale of alcoholic drinks is restricted or banned, Kadyrov has launched a campaign to eradicate drug addiction and is encouraging return to traditional moral norms. This time I investigated the case of a young married woman who allegedly committed adultery with a Russian serviceman. Kadyrov's men seized her, stripped her naked, shaved her hair and eyebrows, drew a cross on her forehead, took her picture with a mobile phone and sent this picture to everyone in the city where the
incident happened.
This story is not a unique one. Such things are quite frequent.
СТ: - Most Russians believe that the Caucasus cannot be treated in a different way and that Caucasian society obeys only crude violence. Maybe these people are right and dictatorship, not democracy, is an effective and natural administrative method for Chechnya?
Lokshina: Of course, it is not true. We can only say that war worsens human beings. The cult of Ramzan Kadyrov, which is now developing in Chechnya, would not have been possible if not for all these years of horrible bloodshed. Those who know Chechen traditions and visited or worked in Chechnya understand very well that an authoritarian regime is absolutely unacceptable in Chechnya. The republic was different, not ideal in many terms, but at least it valued its own freedom and the freedom of its citizens.
СТ: - Maybe we should speak about ordinary fear? Let's recall Soviet times when few people dared to openly criticize the authorities because it could have caused an actual loss of rights - carrier, education and different benefits. Everyone had something to be afraid of. And the level of fear is even higher here.
Lokshina: Yes, fear is higher here because the threat to one's life and physical immunity is much more realistic. In addition, people are sincerely happy to see that something is being repaired. They have long forgotten what new or repaired buildings, fountains - material signs of peaceful life - look like. They want to hope for the future.
I had the impression that it is important for them to be able to speak out and tell, if not the whole truth, then at least part of it - to openly criticize the federals without fearing repression.
СТ: - How much has Kadyrov himself changed? His appearance or
manners?
Lokshina: First of all, thanks to his advisers he has learnt to speak correctly in public. When he just started his ascent to power, his every speech in public was a disgrace. He simply could not speak intelligently and always said something unacceptable, ridiculous or stupid.
Today every news bulletin starts and ends with reports about Kadyrov. Reports are as follows: Ramzan Kadyrov introduced order at a federal checkpoint or criticized soldiers for untidiness - they did not clean up rubbish here and did not paint something there; Ramzan Kadyrov inspected a police station; Ramzan Kadyrov visited a school and children hung around his neck; Ramzan Kadyrov visited a hospital, talked to patients and asked them whether he could help. Of course, this makes a strong impression on people, especially because Kadyrov never comes empty-handed. He hands out dozens of computers as if he owned a large computer warehouse (although this can be the case) and distributes money in batches. More than one month ago, he held a students conference, and students were brought to the meeting with him. Kadyrov came into the hall, looked at the audience and gave 1,000 dollars to every girl wearing a scarf.
Of course, there are people who regard such behaviour as dubious, but many people are sincerely happy.
The conclusion is simple - Kadyrov is no longer a dilettante in the sphere of political populism, he is a professional.
Premier's men still maintain contacts with rebels
I remember Kadyrov attending hearings on a UN human right committee report about the implementation of a pact on civil and political rights by Russia.
There was a well-known Chechen rights champion there. He approached her during the break and said (I was there at that moment): "We cannot rise up against the Russians today because they are stronger and better armed. But you know, sister, wait a little bit. We are on the same side."
That is Kadyrov's message to Chechen society. He is explaining to people directly and indirectly: "We are on our own, we are building our own world. I am the boss here. And we need Russia in order to milk it."
To what extent does the situation in Chechnya suit people? I think that many find the situation disgusting, but people are tired and are trying to adapt to the reality and reconcile themselves to it. There is no other reality.
СТ: - Has the attitude to the underground changed? Is the underground still supported by the people? Or maybe people simply do not want to speak about this?
Lokshina: People are really very reluctant to talk about this. It is quite commonplace that Kadyrovites are not just former militants - many of them are not quite former. They behave like militants and in the recent period, it has been very difficult to understand who is who and who is from where. There was a story in Vedenskiy District recently. Kadyrov learnt that the head of the district anti-terrorist centre, a "former" militant, continued to maintain contacts and cooperation with militants. Photos were found showing some soldiers of the centre together with militants, including with the well-known field commander, Khayrulla. The photos showed them sitting around a bonfire, smiling and hugging.
But of course, they prefer to keep quiet about militants. There are two people who horrify people in Chechnya - Shamil Basayev and Ramzan Kadyrov.
Caucasus Times, Prague
http://www.caucasustimes.com/article.asp?language=1&id=9067
