An interview of Akhmed Zakaev to the German magazine Kurier
What do you feel when you hear the news from Chechnya?
In the past 10 years we have only heard negative news. As a person involved in all political processes this cannot but upset me. I realize the hopelessness of the situation.
What state is Chechnya in at the moment: war or peace? Have things settled down?
It is impossible to explain the situation there in two words. There is no doubt that Chechnya has been occupied and conquered. The Chechen people are hostages of the Kremlin and its appointees and are violated by them. People die daily. There are daily kidnappings, tortures and extra-judicial executions. Chechnya is a bleeding wound on Europe’s body. Europeans should and could interfere in order to put things right but they turn a blind eye.
Who plays the main part in the Chechen Resistance now? Do the liberal forces (the moderates) who you are associated with, have a mission?
As things stand Russia accuses you of allegedly playing the coordinating role.
To my regret this is not the case. I do not have any opportunities to influence the military situation.
The declaration of the Caucasus Emirate [in 2007, author’s note] by Dokku Umarov caused a great division. Since that moment the military component of the resistance has existed separately from its political component. But Dokka Umarov has taken a dead-end. In practice, all members of the Chechen resistance, all unit commanders have left his sphere of influence and have refused to carry out his orders.
We want to bring these people back into the legal fold of the Chechen state. So far we have not allied ourselves with those who bear arms but irrespective of what army would support us, what military resources we would have at our disposal – the same is true of Russia – the conflict cannot be resolved through violence. We need to find a political solution.
Chechnya has a very significant political autonomy within Russia. Is this the political solution you would support, putting aside for a moment Kadyrov’s person?
Both Aslan Maskhadov and Dudaev, all of us have always said that independence is not an end for end’s sake. Independence guarantees the security of our nation. This would mean no more repetitions of 1944 when the whole nation was deported and 50% of all Chechens lost their lives; no repetition of 1999??? with over 100 000 people dead; or 1999 with another 250 000 dead. This is what independence means to us. Putin once made a similar statement when he said that it was not the official status of Chechnya that was important for Russia. What was important for Moscow was that Chechnya should not become a springboard for aggression. I am confident that this could become a basis for an acceptable co-existence and conflict resolution model for both Russia and Chechnya. The agreement signed by Yeltsin and Maskhadov on 12 May 1997 is the basis for all types of talks. Including on the political solution.
How would you define the current legal status of Chechnya? Is the situation within the law?
Chechnya is the only place in Europe where there are no laws, no effective laws and it is a place where no laws can function. No laws whatsoever, neither Russian law, nor international law, nor Chechen law. It is a place of total lawlessness.
Russia argues that lawlessness is the result of such people as Dokku Umarov operating in that land. Similar accusations are filed against you.
Well, I do understand where Russia is coming from. I have not set foot in Chechnya since 2000. I cannot have any influence on the situation there. I am convinced that responsibility for what is happening there today lies with those who claim to be in control of the situation. All of us, including myself, are only bearers of the legal framework. This is what we are trying to protect and what we are trying to influence. As for Umarov, I am certain that he is governed by "them”. All provocations, all terrorist attacks for which he has claimed responsibility were orchestrated. They were carried out under the supervision of the Russian government and the FSB.
What do you have at your disposal that would help you achieve a solution?
Documents. The Peace Agreement. My firm belief that the Chechen nation will not put up with the state of affairs it finds itself in. There have been many changes in the world. Until recently territorial integrity had prevalence over the right of nations to self-determination. But both the US and Europe recognized Kosovo as a sovereign state while Russia which had always appealed to the principle of territorial integrity on the Chechen issue, recognized Abkhazia and South Ossetia as the states independent from Georgia.
This gives us a great chance. We know that Russia would have an interest in finding a political solution to the conflicts in the North Caucasus. It is not only Chechnya which is in the state of conflict today, it is the whole of the North Caucasus. Stability in Chechnya means stability in the Caucasus, and stability in the Caucasus means stability in Russia. Stability in Russia means stability in the world at large.
Russia, for its part, seems to have found a solution for Chechnya?
I don’t think so. Yes, this is what they claim in their propaganda. But I don’t think that they do not grasp the situation. The situation at present is worse than it was at the beginning of 1999 or in 1994. They had only one problem at the time which was Chechnya. Today the whole of the Caucasus presents a problem for them, and the whole of the North Caucasus.
Is there going to be a new war and who would be the parties in that war?
I do not divide the conflict into constituent parts as it is still going on. It will go on until we find a political solution. There have been no first, second or third wars. It has been one uninterrupted war. The subjects of that war are the Chechen people on the one hand, and the Kremlin on the other. What has to change for the dialogue to have a chance to succeed? There has to be a changeover of the political regime in Russia. The current regime is behind everything that is happening in the Caucasus today. It has deprived nations of the North Caucasus of their fundamental rights: a right to a Constitution, a right to elect their own leader, a right to freedom of religion, a right to develop their culture. This has been the detonator of all negative processes which are unfolding in the Caucasus.
There is, on the other hand, an ongoing radicalization of the insurgents, their shift towards fundamentalist Islam which makes the dialogue even harder, I suppose?
This development has two sides and it certainly poses a problem. The longer the war continues, the greater the problem because wars do not make people better, they degrade them. On the other hand, it is important to stress that there is racism in Russia, bordering on fascism.
Do you believe you would ever set foot on the Chechen soil?
It is difficult to answer this question. Irrespective of what happens to me, I think about it day and night. I do not know whether this happens in my lifetime. I am sure that Chechnya is going to achieve freedom and independence. But I am not sure that I personally would be able to enjoy the fruits of that freedom and independence of our state.
http://www.chechenpress.co.uk/content/2010/11/18/main01.shtml
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