RT: Your meeting with President
Medvedev resulted in the signing of several treaties. What help is
Abkhazia expecting to receive from Russia?
SB: We signed ten documents, most
of them of an economic nature. I think the most important ones were the
documents concerning the development of transport infrastructure:
construction of our airport and its operation, maritime traffic, roads,
railways… These are the directions in which any economy should move,
and Abkhazia is not an exception here. We signed an agreement on the
Emergencies Ministry activities – rescue work on land and sea. There
were also a number of military treaties. So, all these agreements will
help our development. Russia also helps us financially, and this aid is
substantial.
But as I told Mr. Medvedev, the
macroeconomic project that we have today – in the area of transport,
including air, maritime traffic, railways – is mutually beneficial, it
is good for both Abkhazia and Russia. For example, re-exporting goods
through our territories to Russia's South. Good question. It involves a
number of issues – border customs clearance, for example. When we
figure out and solve these problems, it will significantly help the
economy. The finances that have been allocated already are used for
social needs – developing infrastructure, dealing with environmental
issues, because Abkhazia is a place for tourists. The sea and its
condition are the most important things for us, so people will come
here. And we will continue our co-operation in the military sphere,
based on the treaties we signed – the military base, co-operation in
the area of technology.
RT: You and President Medvedev agreed
on the creation of a Russian military base in Abkhazia. Some Western
countries and Georgia say that's illegal. Authorities in Tbilisi also
claim that after the 2008 war, both South Ossetia and Abkhazia have
become one large Russian military base in the Caucasus. What's your
response?
SB: It is hard to respond to things
and claims that cannot be considered serious. But I have to. The
Abkhazian army has 24,000 people today, and that includes the reserve.
The Russian military base staff is only 1,500 people today. 1,400
soldiers are in the border patrol troops. If you can call that a
military base, then I can ask both Georgia and the Western countries
the same question. There are about 7,000 people in the NATO troops in
Kosovo. Now, that is a military base. So let's look at what happens in
the center of Europe first, and then move on to our region.
RT: What is the situation in the region now?
SB: Of course, the situation has
changed drastically. It is more stable now. The joint border patrol is
bringing results. We are only beginning to equip the borders with
surveillance, fence them, so that there are no provocations at the
borders, no smuggling of things. It is very important. So I think the
situation there is stable now.
RT: What is the current stage of talks in Geneva on the Caucasus? Is there a chance of reaching some kind of an agreement?
SB: The talks in Geneva are being
held, and so far we support the process, even though Georgia has said
no to all our proposals. Abkhazia and South Ossetia have the right to
insist on Georgia signing a non-aggression pact. After what happened in
2008, Georgia should gladly do it, if it doesn't plan any aggression in
the future. But the issue has not been resolved yet.
Of course, this process could be
halted, but it should be continued. It is better to continue the talks.
The talks in Gali, where five countries are involved, are happening at
the same time, where current issues are being discussed – the
stationing of Russian border patrol troops in the region, our own
border patrol, EU military observers on the other side of the border. I
think these processes should be continued, and at this point we plan to
participate in them.
RT: So far besides Russia only three
other states have recognized the independence of Abkhazia. What other
chances are there that other countries may follow?
SB: I think this year several more
countries will recognize Abkhazia. It does not matter that much which
countries in particular. When I spoke at the Moscow Institute of
International Relations, I said we are already recognized by the
biggest country in the world – Russia, and by the smallest one – Nauru.
I think other countries will join. It’s a joke of course, but every
joke has some truth in it. I think some former Soviet Union republics
will follow suit, along with other countries. But it’s not that
important how soon we’ll be recognized. What is more important is that
we establish ourselves as a state as quickly as possible – our
statehood, democratic principles, the rule of law – and make the
Abkhazian economy attractive to investors. This is our priority. It’s
obvious that we pay a lot of attention to our foreign policy. We are in
touch with international organizations in different countries on
different continents. However, what’s essential is to develop our
economy and our political system.
RT: Is it possible that some day Abkhazia will become part of the Russian Federation?
SB: No, no. We have no fears of
this kind. The world is built so that minor countries and peoples are
susceptible to assimilation, whether we want it or not. There are
processes of globalization, economic development and so forth. Nobody
hampers our development, though. Nobody hampers our addressing
demographic issues, our dealing with families with many children. And
Russia helps us in that. Russia has absolutely no need to annex more
lands – it has enough of its own. When this issue is raised, the reason
is clear – Georgia and the West claim that Russia is going to absorb
Abkhazia. But [Lavrenty] Beriya and [Joseph] Stalin failed to do so in
their time, so it’s highly unlikely that Russia will succeed now.
Recently, I went to Russia on an
official visit, and I had a meeting with the president of the Russian
Federation, and he re-affirmed that Russia has only the best of
intentions towards Abkhazia.
Of course, the relations are
friendly. What is crucial for Russia is that there should be peace and
stability in the South Caucasus, and consequently in the North Caucasus
and all over the Caucasus – there must be peace there. If our people
are smart and wise enough to comprehend all this, they will do the
utmost – through economy, through development and through culture,
along with Russia – to build a normal peaceful state where economy,
culture and our national identity can be developed. Russia is there to
help us in this cause.
RT: There have been reports recently
that Georgia is rearming with help from abroad, including Israel. Do
you feel this is a threat to Abkhazia?
SB: Of course, it can pose a threat
both to Abkhazia and South Ossetia, and not only to us, but to the
Caucasus as a whole, and the south of Russia. The 2008 events have
demonstrated that Georgia is an unpredictable country. Its leadership
lives and works based on emotions, outbursts of emotions. It is not the
way a nation should determine its policy.
Therefore we take measures for our
security. When I am asked why there are Russian troops, why there is a
military base, I reply it’s for one simple reason, why all of you are
members of NATO.
RT: Do you think the 2008 South Ossetian scenario will repeat itself in Abkhazia?
SB: I think it is impossible now. If someone has such thoughts and ambitions, it means the end of the Georgian state.
RT: What will happen if Georgia takes some active steps to challenge Abkhazia’s independence?
SB: We’ll take appropriate
measures, along with our allies. We will likewise do all we can to
prevent this in the first place. And, should it happen, our reaction
will be the same as in 2008.
RT: So far Georgia says it aims for peaceful reconciliation with Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Do you think it is possible?
SB: I saw the plan that Georgia
developed and submitted to the European Parliament. They think this
plan is one of the most significant steps of Georgia’s foreign policy.
We don’t think so. To us, violent or peaceful integration with Georgia
is impossible.
It is high time for everyone to
realize one thing. No one can ignore the real situation in the world,
be it a major power or a small country. The people of Abkhazia have
made their choice – a choice for independence and free development.
We are ready for dialogue with any
country that’s open. We are ready to talk to the Georgian side whenever
it is ready, except we will have no contacts with the current Georgian
authorities who have done much evil in the Caucasus and whose hands are
covered with blood. We will only talk to those who realize there is no
other way. We are neighbors and must build our good, neighborly
relations for the future. This is a realistic approach.
RT: Sergey Bagapsh, thank you for your time with us today.
Source: Russia Today (Including Video)
http://www.abkhazworld.com/news/interview/427